Wall’s record with Wausau is not encouraging. We should have had a more sound plan before the dozers went in. Whatever happened to the plan the urban planners from Michigan offered?
Yeah that really put the city in a tight spot. From what I've heard speaking with insiders, it's kind of a horse-a-piece on who was at fault on the Riverlife deal. But as I commented to Juan, the city didn't have much control over the project since WOZ bought the mall.
I believe the project will proceed following the delay, but in the interim, the temporary street project, based on the Toole plan that was done prior, the facade work on HOM Furniture and the Children’s Imaginarium are moving ahead. If I had to guess, I would also say that WOZ, and T Wall are clear that the council’s patience for more than one extension or more money is likely just not there. Of course, people can understand that the cost of materials, labor and interest rates are certainly way up this year, but we also want progress and new tax base there, and if that isn’t happening, the conversation will certainly need to shift to what, or who will be able to get to the place where we are achieving the goals. The key to generating traffic downtown in an environment where less people now need to spend every day in an office to do their work, is increasing the number of people who live down there, vs work down there. If we want to attract higher paying employers to create jobs here, there has to be skilled employees to fill them and places for them to live and recreate when they are not at work. This is why so many of the things cities, counties, business leaders and schools do are interrelated. There is a demand for units in the downtown area, and some of the newer ones are full or have wait lists, so there is certainly a market for it, in a mix of different age groups. While I think the delay is disappointing, I also don’t think it is a reason to make too many negative assumptions until we know more.
Fair comments, for sure. The point about office space is definitely spot on, and I think housing is one of the main avenues left. Some have told me this kind of thing happens all the time and real estate is a great investment (true, but not without risk). They pointed out several other deals are seeing the same problems.
One concern that I think is worth pointing out is increasing costs. The council made a decision based on the numbers presented for a 2023 start to construction. Those numbers will assuredly change since inflation is still high (though coming down) and construction inflation is generally 2-4% more than consumer inflation. Higher costs would mean a lower ROI for investors.
For Wausau's sake, I hope it turns out fine - I don't think I'm taking a stance by saying the project's success is better than a dirt lot in the middle of downtown. And the Imaginarium and the street grid is encouraging. But delays on the Riverlife have tended to have been early signals on projects that ended up not happening. I wouldn't call it a harbinger exactly but something to keep an eye on, at least.
I agree. I always try to be a cautious optimist. But, if signals start to show us things are not going reasonably according to the plan, we have shown before we are not afraid to move on from developers that sit stalled for too long if that is what we find. In this case, WOZ is as interested in seeing the project come together as anyone, so as partners, while we have to work together to create progress, I’m sure their patience for overly extended delay is also not infinite.
My family and I ate at Wow yesterday. It’s really hard to spend time along the Riverfront and Mall area without thinking about “what could have been”. I really do think however that Wausau needs to attract higher paying large employers and consolidate some of the municipalities if it’s ever going to catch up to the Chippewa and Fox Valleys.
Yes, it’s interesting that we haven’t had much news in the way of business expansion or new employers coming to town for awhile. Plenty of new small businesses popping up lately but nothing of the larger variety. The same employee shortage issue persists based on the unemployment figures I’ve seen
On downtown in general: I live two blocks from Third St. and love our neighborhood. I’m concerned that the loss of the mall has reduced conventional retail outlets downtown to fewer than 25-30. We have some wonderful locally owned shops, but bars and restaurants make up most of the street traffic. As a side comment, most if not all of the mall businesses did not relocate in Wausau. I believe that’s true and if so it’s a shame.
The Reflexology place relocated to Third Street and the Gaming Emporium left for the west side, but many that did relocated elsewhere in the metro did so outside Wausau proper, such as Rib Mountain.
My comment it’s only about that a decision making process most likely was not done with a 100% security that the funding was there to start the project.
Whoever was responsible to oversee this.
In many cases big projects like this need letter from the financial institutions, so they don’t depend on finding financing afterwards.
I am neutral, delays in business is something that happens.
What it seems to me is that the city didn’t do it’s due diligence. How can they assign the project and the financial help from the tax payers to a company that didn’t prove to be financially ready to start on time. That I don’t understand.
If you can explain how this projects get assigned.
Honestly this project could be open to the public something like an open investment and people can buy into the investment and get the project going sooner than later.
Hi Juan. It's an unusual scenario because the city didn't own the land, the Wausau Opportunity Zone group does (after the city helped WOZ buy it — WOZ is a for-profit entity formed by two area Foundations.) So WOZ selected the developer, not the city, but they were awarded tax increment finance funding through the city via reverse TIF (meaning they won't get the money on the front end, but only after they complete the project). So it sets up an odd situation where the city is putting money into a project but essentially has no say in it.
Wall’s record with Wausau is not encouraging. We should have had a more sound plan before the dozers went in. Whatever happened to the plan the urban planners from Michigan offered?
Yeah that really put the city in a tight spot. From what I've heard speaking with insiders, it's kind of a horse-a-piece on who was at fault on the Riverlife deal. But as I commented to Juan, the city didn't have much control over the project since WOZ bought the mall.
I believe the project will proceed following the delay, but in the interim, the temporary street project, based on the Toole plan that was done prior, the facade work on HOM Furniture and the Children’s Imaginarium are moving ahead. If I had to guess, I would also say that WOZ, and T Wall are clear that the council’s patience for more than one extension or more money is likely just not there. Of course, people can understand that the cost of materials, labor and interest rates are certainly way up this year, but we also want progress and new tax base there, and if that isn’t happening, the conversation will certainly need to shift to what, or who will be able to get to the place where we are achieving the goals. The key to generating traffic downtown in an environment where less people now need to spend every day in an office to do their work, is increasing the number of people who live down there, vs work down there. If we want to attract higher paying employers to create jobs here, there has to be skilled employees to fill them and places for them to live and recreate when they are not at work. This is why so many of the things cities, counties, business leaders and schools do are interrelated. There is a demand for units in the downtown area, and some of the newer ones are full or have wait lists, so there is certainly a market for it, in a mix of different age groups. While I think the delay is disappointing, I also don’t think it is a reason to make too many negative assumptions until we know more.
Fair comments, for sure. The point about office space is definitely spot on, and I think housing is one of the main avenues left. Some have told me this kind of thing happens all the time and real estate is a great investment (true, but not without risk). They pointed out several other deals are seeing the same problems.
One concern that I think is worth pointing out is increasing costs. The council made a decision based on the numbers presented for a 2023 start to construction. Those numbers will assuredly change since inflation is still high (though coming down) and construction inflation is generally 2-4% more than consumer inflation. Higher costs would mean a lower ROI for investors.
For Wausau's sake, I hope it turns out fine - I don't think I'm taking a stance by saying the project's success is better than a dirt lot in the middle of downtown. And the Imaginarium and the street grid is encouraging. But delays on the Riverlife have tended to have been early signals on projects that ended up not happening. I wouldn't call it a harbinger exactly but something to keep an eye on, at least.
I agree. I always try to be a cautious optimist. But, if signals start to show us things are not going reasonably according to the plan, we have shown before we are not afraid to move on from developers that sit stalled for too long if that is what we find. In this case, WOZ is as interested in seeing the project come together as anyone, so as partners, while we have to work together to create progress, I’m sure their patience for overly extended delay is also not infinite.
My family and I ate at Wow yesterday. It’s really hard to spend time along the Riverfront and Mall area without thinking about “what could have been”. I really do think however that Wausau needs to attract higher paying large employers and consolidate some of the municipalities if it’s ever going to catch up to the Chippewa and Fox Valleys.
Yes, it’s interesting that we haven’t had much news in the way of business expansion or new employers coming to town for awhile. Plenty of new small businesses popping up lately but nothing of the larger variety. The same employee shortage issue persists based on the unemployment figures I’ve seen
On downtown in general: I live two blocks from Third St. and love our neighborhood. I’m concerned that the loss of the mall has reduced conventional retail outlets downtown to fewer than 25-30. We have some wonderful locally owned shops, but bars and restaurants make up most of the street traffic. As a side comment, most if not all of the mall businesses did not relocate in Wausau. I believe that’s true and if so it’s a shame.
The Reflexology place relocated to Third Street and the Gaming Emporium left for the west side, but many that did relocated elsewhere in the metro did so outside Wausau proper, such as Rib Mountain.
Thank you for the info, Brian.
My comment it’s only about that a decision making process most likely was not done with a 100% security that the funding was there to start the project.
Whoever was responsible to oversee this.
In many cases big projects like this need letter from the financial institutions, so they don’t depend on finding financing afterwards.
Hopefully, they get this solve and get going.
Thank you!
I am neutral, delays in business is something that happens.
What it seems to me is that the city didn’t do it’s due diligence. How can they assign the project and the financial help from the tax payers to a company that didn’t prove to be financially ready to start on time. That I don’t understand.
If you can explain how this projects get assigned.
Honestly this project could be open to the public something like an open investment and people can buy into the investment and get the project going sooner than later.
Hi Juan. It's an unusual scenario because the city didn't own the land, the Wausau Opportunity Zone group does (after the city helped WOZ buy it — WOZ is a for-profit entity formed by two area Foundations.) So WOZ selected the developer, not the city, but they were awarded tax increment finance funding through the city via reverse TIF (meaning they won't get the money on the front end, but only after they complete the project). So it sets up an odd situation where the city is putting money into a project but essentially has no say in it.